Initial Platoon/Company size for mil and civ objective

  1. 8 years ago

    After editing some excellent insurgency missions over the last few weeks (Brawler and Autigergrad, you're amazing), I'm thinking of taking a crack at making my first ever mission. I'm thinking maybe something on Sangin or Fallujah or Zargabad but whatever on that for now. I have a basic question on the initial strength of the OPFOR forces.

    My goal is to create a basic asymmetrical insurgency mission. The goal is that the mission should start off real slow going around and interrogating civilians for Intel on enemy locations. I want suicide bombers and IED's/VIED's to be the real threat over the first few hours, but have it possible for OPFOR forces to get out of hand if I don't handle the civilians properly.

    If I set the initial Platoon size to the lowest setting (30), but civilians on extreme, will it be possible for the enemy faction to grow exponentially past the initial platoon setting? I've played some missions with these settings (civ and mil) with "Company 100" and enemies populate the map a little too much right from the get go. I'd like for it to be possible for it to become this populated, I just want to prolong some peace and quite as I patrol at first.

    And for my purposes, what's the difference between military and civilian objective in regards to the AI Commander for insurgency missions? I see I have the initial unit strength options in both modules.

  2. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    So two quick questions for you guys regarding Assymetrical:

    1. In practice, is it recommended to have multiple duplicate civ/mil placement modules or one of each with a higher platoon/company size? I currently might place one civ platoon at 30 and another at civ platoon at 60 covering the same AO (placed on different civ objects). Would it be cleaner or recommended in any way to just place one but have the company size be 100? I know 90 and 100 are not equal, just using this as an example where the figures are close. I guess I'm just not sure how well distributed profiles are made around the map with only one module. This is why I place several, to make sure most of the areas have activity. Is that bad practice?

    2. What do you guys like to do on smaller maps? Specifically I'm making a mission on FATA which basically has to cluster all spawns in the center of the map. I'd say it equates to a 5x5KM radius. Maybe less. I'm finding it difficult to balance the modules to spawn enough enemies for each encounter, versus spawning too many profiles all at once and killing my FPS when in this radius (I'll get 60 FPS when off the grid at my base but 20 or under in the towns where the modules are).

    Could someone give me an example for how they like to set up the modules for maps like this? I currently have two civ modules with Platoon 60 and one mil module with platoon 60, and the Virtual AI Active Limiter at 20 which seems too much for my performance because of the cluster of spawns. However, when I reduce the initial platoon size to 30, the enemy groups seem a little thin and encounters are a little too easy.

    Would I be better off having maybe two modules only (one mil and one civ) with Platoon 60 and just living with the small force size hoping it may increase after they recruit some civs?

  3. @AUTigerGrad FYI, if you run debug you'll realize that FATA has several smaller villages that ALiVE doesn't recognize for Mil or Civ objectives...mainly in the middle of the map to the right side of the major city on the map. I placed about 5 or 6 Custom objectives on those locales and synced them (all Civ) to the Opfor commander to let him know to place units and installations in those areas at some point.

    Good call. I think the far left side of the city is sans mil/civ objects too. I really appreciate the help. Seems like I have a pretty solid game plan thanks to you guys. You both saved me several hours of trial and error.

  4. Edited 8 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Boy. I've been balancing a mission on FATA for what feels like forever now. :) It's been fun and I love the map but it hasn't been an easy task. Some updates:

    I'm beginning to feel like having a BLUFOR civ obj module in any form is just overkill. Even with a small initial force (Platoon 30), they seem to constantly pepper the three large cities and regardless of initial OPFOR strength, the map feels just too barren for the first two or so hours from mission start (BLUFOR civ obj units just wiped the floor clean in the early going) . It probably doesn't help matters that my base in on the south east edge, making the map feel even more empty because the closest outskirts village which my civ Platoon isn't focused on (where the insurgency tends to start) is several (empty) kilometers away.

    What I'm thinking of doing now is using a BLUFOR mil obj module instead (I have one now, but I only allow it 15 units), increasing the platoon size, and instead having them focus on the random camps in the hills, with a custom obj module in the cities so they can occasionally patrol the urban areas too. Without taking this approach, I just don't see any epic CQB battles happening in the larger cities at all.

    For OPFOR, I've noticed with anything less than around 100 inital units, it's still far too easy to travel around without much resistance. But once you hit 100+, beware! No transport or CAS chopper is safe and every moment in the air is a nerve wracking one thanks to CAF RPG guys. I'm getting shot down a lot now, especially if I push my luck and try to fly to deep within the towns.

    I'm still finding it cumbersome getting any OPFOR patrols in the valleys between the villages outside the main cities. The countryside has random camps (which is great) but the walk from the city to the nearby villages on the right side of the cities is still kind of a snooze-fest.

    Anyway, right now I'm thinking of having BLUFOR limited to 60 units (mil obj only), with their focus on the OPFOR camps. The playable units consist of two squads; a 10 man infantry team doing mostly recon and a 7 man sniper team which will be used for C2ISTAR and installation breaching.

    OPFOR currently has 130 units, 100 being civ and 30 being mil set only to spawn random camps. I'd still love to get some feedback from FATA mission makers but realize this thread is a little old now. This is a tough map to balance and makes palaces like Reshmaan and Takistan with their symmetry and small hills seem like a mission making breeze by comparison.

    EDIT: I'm not discounting this approach may be overkill and *could* set me at an unrecoverable disadvantage after 5-6 hours as the insurgency grows. It's just the first 2 hours are so slow and empty I don't see how I can share this mission with anyone and expect them to enjoy themselves unless I take an approach like this. Definitely open to ideas though! Lots of good ones already in here. I just need to polish this up a bit.

  5. Edited 8 years ago by Woody05

    So I was thinking about this today, regarding you having problem with no one in the open spaces. I am not familiar with the map, but reading through this thread I think this might be an area where their advice on placing units could be helpful.

    So I definitely identify with your need for randomness and not wanting to know where they opfor are.

    To combat this though, maybe set a very complex patrol route, like 15-20 waypoints all over these areas. Do this with say 4 different fire teams in different areas. Make the waypoints sporadic and not necessarily follow a pattern. Put them all around the map in the wilderness areas too. I won't go as far to say close your eyes and start clicking, but you get the idea. Then cycle the last waypoint.

    I would assume you don't play the scenario doing the same thing over and over again.

    So that being said, there's no way your brain is going to be able to keep track of or extrapolate where those group are after about 10-15minutes. On one play through you might pass through an area 30 minutes into the mission and run into a one of them, but on another playthrough you might pass through that same area 50 minutes in and they won't be there.

    So while you do know there are bad guys out there in a general area, you don't know specifically where they are. Which is no different than relying on modules. You know the module put bad guys in your general TAOR, but you don't know where they'll be when you happen to pass through.

    Does that make sense?

    In essence by using complexity and dotting their waypoints all over the map, you've effectively created randomness (by overloading your brains ability to remember or guess where they'll be), but you can fence in that randomness to the wilderness areas which is where you are struggling.

    This gives you and your players something to "find" over those 2 hours, then the real fun begins as the modules really kick in with the insurgents.

    P.S. I wouldn't sync those to the AI so they keep following your waypoints. If you did sync them they would get pulled into the opcom and just get funneled to the areas where the rest are (if I understand correctly)

  6. 7 years ago
    Edited 7 years ago by HeroesandvillainsOS

    Oh yes there is. I'm using the low option but I can definitely increase it to medium or something if needed. I happen to prefer an extreme amounts of civs so I try to keep the pre-made installations down a bit so things don't get nuts a only couple hours in, which can happen if you give them too many installations to start.

    I remember one time AuTigerGrad telling me one time he left his server running (I guess it wasn't pausing or something?) and he said like literally every building at one point after several hours was an installation. Lol I think that's when he cut it down to none for pre-placed and I think that helped if I recall.

    That's a good module option for me to keep in mind Friznit. Thanks for pointing it out.